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Hi, everyone. Hopefully you can hear us. Um, thank you for attending the talk today on, er, acing the portfolio and smashing the M sra. Er, I'm Taha, I'm one of the committee members of Ir Juniors and I'm very thankful to be presenting Doctor Alex Chan, er, from the Oxford Deanery. It's a radiology trainee and Doctor Rohan Ahmed from um, er, Peninsula, er, another radiology trainee as well and they very kindly agreed to, er, give you guys some tips on how to ace your portfolio and, er, really, you know, do well on the M SRA. Um, so in terms of the structure of things, um, Doctor Alex is gonna, er, just give a short presentation first and then, er, Doctor Rohan. Um, and then I'll just, at the end, er, I'll give um an update on some of the changes that have just come in today, er, as applications have opened in today about how the portfolio has now changed slightly. Um, we'll just give it a few more minutes while people are filtering in before we get started. Um, and like, I think there's a few more people tuning in just in the moment. Er, So uh yeah, just bear with us for a few minutes and then we'll get started. Ok. Mhm. Hi, everyone to those. Just joining. We're just going to be waiting a couple of minutes um, before we get started. Uh, just while people are still filtering in. Ok. Um, I guess we can get started now that we've got a, I think um, quite a few attendees. Um, so, er, Doctor Alex John, I'll hand it over to you if that's all right. Thank you very much for the introduction. So let's get the presentation loaded. So, yeah, hello, I'm Alex Mo, the radiologist, um, currently training in Oxford. So I'm just gonna briefly go over the application for radiology coming year and some of the important points about it. So yeah, application process briefly cover what is expected at each stage and then I'll hand over to Rowan. So this is a very simplified version of the timeline that you might have seen online. So, application just opened this morning. You've got to the 23rd of November to apply and there's a few things to do along the way and there's a lot of deadlines that you have to remember and you have to meet them. Everything on the top are things that there's no deadlines yet. Well, I mean, there's no dates yet. Anything on the bottom, that's what you should be concerned about. So once you apply for your application at some point, you upload all your evidence. They usually give you like a 23 weeks window and then at some point they'll send you an email and say come and do the M sra my advice is keep a very close tab on your emails around the time because they're all first come first served. So just, just be very careful, especially on for those of you on, very busy on call schedules. That's quite hard to organize around. So the MSI windows are shorter this year. It's fourth to the 14th of Jan. It used to be more of a one month process. It's now over two weeks. And if you've done well enough, you'll get your M sra result and your invite to interfere usually in the same day or the, or within one or two days and then they'll give you a window to book again. It's first come first serve. So if something happens, you book really late, you can't make another slot un. Unfortunately, it's above a tough love. You do. You do saw some swabs yourself to make it the interview window they put online, I presume is not correct since it starts before the M SRA is set. I think it's more of a generic timeline they're putting online just so people have an idea of when it is happening after the interview at some point, they'll ask you rank your jobs, hopefully in March you'll get an offer and then you start on the seventh of August. This page is just all of this in a table format for those of you who just to prefer it that way, I'll just leave it. I said, listen, this is recorded. So I think one thing that's really important to ask yourself is to know how competitive, what you're applying for first. It's not, it's not in a sense of to deterring people applying, but actually to be realistic about how much work you need to put in to get your, get the job. So for the past few years, every single radiology, radiology training job has been filled last year, there was 2000 applicants, applicants going for just 350 jobs. I believe it's also 350 jobs this year. And everyone's expect applicants number to go up because this year it's 8.8 applicants per job last year, it was 6.18. And if you go back 10 years, there's been a very steady, slow increase and it's not just radiology, it's all specialty as well. There's a big bottle S CT one training. So it's really important, really uh really important to get your portfolio, get your everything sorted and just your ace everything. So just to put in perspective, you know, 8.77 doesn't mean mean a lot. So these are the most competitive specialty with anything that's more than 98 I chose. 98 cos ophthalmologist, ophthalmology decided to not have 100 trainees, I was going to use 100 as the cut off. But the only thing more competitive is public health and ophthalmology and something that's traditionally very competitive like CST is only a 4.17. Although there has been a recent decline in interest and people going to psych an emergency medicine. Instead, this all sounds like really difficult. But actually, you have to remember a lot of these applicants apply for multiple things. And if you get an interview last year, you have a one in two chance in getting a job. So actually your main job, the biggest hurdle is get to the interview stage if you really want that job. So h saying about that, how do you get an interview? It's all based on M sra. The cut off again has been going slowly up. It was 5 21 01 when I applied, it's now 5 43 for last year. Again, we're gonna expect it to go up a bit more this year. And I know I said it and then the M SRA is part of the score to decide your overall rank to offer you a job. It's no longer equal waiting. It's not only 20% on M sra 30% on your portfolio and 50% on your interview. So the interview is now the most important thing for you to for your ranking. So portfolio, this is probably the part that worries people. The most and it is, it is a third of your marks and everything is based on the personal specification because cri criteria and change from year to year. So I understand there's some attendees here who who are probably not applying this year, criteria change year by year, but it's always based on a personal specification. So if you're someone who's planning ahead, let's say 23 years down the line to apply, be familiar with it. So it kind of inform you of the kind of thing you should be doing to get to that stage. And for those those of you who are applying, you should also look at this because this is what the interview criterias will be based on. So portfolio wise, it's now 47 points in seven domains, they're all self declared online on Aureo. And what happens is after you upload all your evidence, everything at some point, a consultant will go through your portfolio and say they agree or they disagree with the point and all this achievement has to be completed by the time of uh sorry, I said mission, I mean submission of your application. So for example, if you're doing APG cert and examiners and, and the board of examiners are not meeting to confirm your certificate until after the application deadline. Unfortunately, you cannot put that on as er as point on your teaching sections and I'm just gonna highlight it says time of submission. I'm not sure does it matter if you submit earlier or later. But for example, when I applied, I actually on my taste a week, June, the application Windows and I didn't submit my application until I finished my taster week. Just because I was worried, they might say I've submitted before that. So that's something again to bear in mind. And the one thing they find, they say a lot on is do not over claim because it might become a pro property issue. But my general advice is if something is borderline, I'll say, go for the higher one because the worst they can do is deduct, deduct the point of it to the lower, the, to the, to the level below. But if it's only one or two times, they're not gonna use that as a reason to escalate saying you have appropriate issues if you've got genuine belief that you should be in that category. So I'm gonna go through all the um, um s sections, some of them will be a bit longer, some of it, I'll just quickly go through them. So the main change on this is the commitment to specialty. It's no longer just one taste a week of three days and you're ticked off, they now want more than 33 or more significant exposures. And this can be anything that is and all of this has to be more than three days. So I just saw some questions, I'll answer that later as we come along so with, with your taster. So there's, there's, there's three category, there's tasters, there's undergraduate elective or students. So that's the components or anything that you kind of choose to do. And clinical project that involves a radiologist or the radiology department. The reason I said that is, that means you can use one, let's say it's a cartilage department looking into, you know, cardio imaging and radiology is involved in that And going back to a taster, that is the only one thing that can count for more than one exposure. But compared to previous years where they say that you can have a, a tertiary experience and a secondary experience to count as two different exposure, you know, to show how they're different and not offering the same experience. The documents gave some examples such as if you're involving MPT prep or that kind of thing. You should look into the big document I've linked at the end to make sure you're aware of what counts as, you know, as a different exposure for taster. I'm not gonna talk about the evidence here. That's the next for the next talk. Next thing is about leadership and management. So they want something that's more than six months. Importantly, remember this can be radiology or non radiology or actually non health care. I'm sure a lot of you do some sort of volunteering work maybe in the community, but it's very important to know it has to be voluntary, it cannot be employment related. And they've also now given very specific guidance on what counts as national. So anything in the UK or in England or in Wales or in Scotland, et cetera, or whether it's local, the definition of local is anything that only involves one trust or one university now teaching. So teaching has broken, has to be broken down to two separate sessions. So the first part is your involvement in teaching. Let's say if you're someone who've done the odd teaching session here and there, you'll get the minimum pot mark, which is two marks. If you've got some evidence, if you want anything more, it needs to be a formal teaching program that lasts at least three months. So answering your question from, from the chat, if you're in the middle of a fellow post, it needs to be three. If you start in August, I believe August September October. So by the time you apply, you will have done three months of it. So it should count if you've been involved in some of the teaching programs there. So again, they've now very clearly say what counts as national or international programs. It needs to be open to all relevant learners and it's usually part of a degree. They're very, they have specified that in the um documentation or whether it's local single trust university related things. And they also give some some more clarification of what is a major contribution you basically need to be leading or organizing something. You can't just be teaching in the program to get a major contribution points. And then the next thing is audit, I think the one most, the most important thing is to get your top points, you know, be be involved in two audits that has lead to change practice and you need to prove that change practice that it is either better to the gold standard or some sort of improvement in the matrix. So you can't just do an audit anymore. You basically need to have a close loop quality improvement projects to meet them. And again, for those of you who are familiar with the old applications, they have changed it last year. The radiology now means it's diagnostic only, maybe not so fair for some of you are interested in interventional radiology coming in with IR projects. But unfortunately, that's, that's the bar and the hoop you have to jump through. And again, they've clarified what they meant by major roles and that's the four tasks you should be involved in as a major role as, as playing a major role in the project. So academic achievement, I think this is one that kind of worries people a lot and definitely on the older scoring system, it is quite scary when it's only out of 10 points and this is 22 marks, but this is now five points out of 45 where two or three of the marks, most of you will get 1 to 3 points. The, for the, the four and five points are really for those exceptional people who, you know, you know, who's got, you know, coming from a career change in phd research or just been work. Um And I'll, I'll probably say if you don't have Dose Mark, don't worry about it. It's two out of 45. The portfolio now is now, you know, less weight to come than previously. So I won't worry too much about it. I'll have to say I'm not sure about master degree. They haven't mentioned anything about that or masters, but I guess it depends whether the master is a post graduate research master or whether it's just a, a taught master and I believe case reports been taken out. I just saw a question about that, but I believe we have an update slice right at the end, which would, which I think included that. So last thing says price and awards, unfortunately, that's one thing you either have or you don't at this point. If you're applying, they have very clearly specified again, merit and distinction in your degree does not give you any point. But they also, so it's more fair, you either have it or you don't kind of thing. But they did mention that you can now consider scholarship and elective bursaries as long as they were open to a competitive application, which some of you might have at some point maybe going to a conference where you have to apply for a Bursary to get or, or there's sometimes they call it a scholarship to get them. So it's worth just digging through, you know, pre previous fundings that you managed to get. Those might meet the criteria here. So that's the portfolio in a nutshell. If you've got any more questions, we can always come back to you at the end. I'm just gonna briefly talk about what the M SRA is. I'm not gonna spend too long on this. So the M SRA is or the multi specialty recruitment assessment, there is two parts to it. There is the professional dilemmas. So for those of you who are trained in the UK, that's basically your situation judgment test where you're given a clinical scenarios, you're given options of what you could do and either you have to rank it from good to bad as in best to worse out of five or you have to from a list, choose the three actions that you could take. There's a lot of books out there, there's a lot of learning resource out there. Um and it's just about practicing for it and understanding it and then there's a clinical problem solving aspect. So the clinical solving, um the clinical problem solvings are all multiple choice questions or single best answer 97 questions and you just go through them, they're both equally weighted and they are drawn on a bell curve. What I meant by that is the score is reflective of how well you have done compared to your peers. Ok? So when, so when we look at the score going up every year, it's not just, it's not the papers getting easier and people are scoring more. It's because more and more, there's more and more people applying. Therefore, you need to have a higher mark to cut out a at a place where you've got the same number of applicants. And again, I've said this before, I'm going to say again, the M SRA is what they decide who get shortlisted for the interviews. The M SRA, the only, the only reason this slide here is to remind you that M SRA is originally a GP exam. Everything written on it is based on based for GP. So all the clinical questions are based on GP work. A lot of the situation, er questions are based on GP. So you might get very for you. Very weird questions about you in a GP practice. This is happening. What will you do kind of things? But it's now used by a lot of different specialties and you have to remember a lot of these applicants will cross apply to radiology and another training program. Ex especially when they either surgical training last year. I've known a lot of CST who's either finish it or in the middle of who who are looking to swap into radiology, have even got a place or is currently in the process of applying. So it's very important to. So remember your competition out there. So 2022 colors 5 21 I forgot to update it. Sorry. And 2023 is 5 40 something. There is competition. It's a GP exam. And again, practice, practice, practice. The last Piper interview. I'm really not gonna talk too much about it because it's been changed this year and we don't know what's gonna be, what is involved until they tell us. So again, we're thinking it's probably gonna be online. It's now 20 minutes instead of 15 minutes and it's now two stations instead of one. So in previous years, there are all generic questions which I listed here like come in like why do you want to do radiology? How can you handle pressure? They will give you a difficult scenario where you can have to talk about. So for example, you've got a colleague who is in distress, what will you do? And something about, you know, your attribute, your portfolio or your skills, but you do have to kind of crowbar each questions into meeting every single point on the personal specification to to nail the points across that you've meet what they want. But this is probably something to think about afterward afterwards later in the era of the time. So that's a very quick 10, 15 minutes whistle stop of the application for radiology. If you remember nothing from this, the only thing I want you to remember is we need to nail the M SRA. That's the only thing that, that will be the first hurdle to stop you from getting an interview and no one will look at your portfolio if as long as you don't get enough points on the M sra, uh there's a few resources you can use. I don't want to overlap too much of your next talk, but radio ca Radar Cafe is good. R cl website is good. Different question banks. I'm just gonna highlight one thing. A lot of people don't realize this but on your oral application, if you go on the application page here, there's, there's a little tab on the bottom that says documents, all the application guides are there, you know, all the self assessment guidance, are there everything that they want to tell you about the application process? Is there? So do go to it, do read it back to back and do make sure you're, you're ticking the boxes, you know, as the way they want it to jump through all the hurdles. You need some references and that's it and I'll pass you off to Rohan. Thank you very much Alex for that. Er, and yeah, er, doctor er Ron Aed is now just gonna expand on er, er some things you can do to sort of maximize your portfolio points and, and really a I'm sorry. Perfect. Hi guys. Um Hope you guys are still awake. Uh I know there's a lot of content and, you know, it's quite easy to get overwhelmed by it and I hope not to bore you guys too, too much, but we're just gonna go over some quick things regarding your portfolio and the M sra so portfolio, this is now uh out of date, so don't worry too much about it. But um as Alex, my colleagues already gone through, we've gone through the updated stuff and then that'll her at the end, we'll then just really hone in on what's different. But this is all available online, maximizing easy points. Now, when it comes to application processes and it comes to portfolio regardless of what career you wanna go into. Um you can do maximal effort for minimum reward and kind of get stuck in the mud or you can try to maximize the amount of reward you get for the effort that you put in. So the first thing is commitment now to get 10 points, it's extremely easy um to get the taste of weeks all sorted out. It's just a little bit of organization. It's not too difficult teaching, to get the um to get the top mark on teaching, you need to have like a major contribution to a national International program. That's five points seems quite hard, but just for one point less major contribution to a regional program, that's extremely easy to do, especially if you've got medical students within your hospital. Um You can just speak to the undergrad center and ask to set up like a weekly course for the medical students and then send an email out to the F one F twos to volunteer to teach something. And now you've created a training program for medical students and you're not even have to do the teaching part of it if you don't want to. Um But then you've still contributed to a regional teaching program, maybe do a couple of lectures yourself, but it frees up your time to then go ahead and get the next part that you need for your application. Now, understandably some of the stuff here might be very difficult to do in, in the one month. Um because as Alex said, technically, you need to have it before you submit. So teaching qualifications, the reason why I put this uneasy, even though the majority of it is um it was like masters or whether you've got post graduate qualifications like a PT set or dip, you get two points for the teaching, the teachers course. Very simple online course. There's not an exam, you just sit through it and it's easy two points. I'm not so sure when the date is that course runs, but those are very easy points to gain whether you have it perfect, if not. Um It's just worth getting onto it whether you need to in the future or not audits. And Q I now, I'm a big believer that these are points that you shouldn't lose. Um If you want to do radiology, um you may already have one and you have enough time really to do a closed loop Q I before the application closes. Very, very easy thing to do. Um Just a little bit of organization. You don't have to reinvent the wheel or do anything groundbreaking. Um You can just go down to the department and ask to try to speak to like the audit lead or the Q I lead, see what the situation is there, speak to the trainees, try to find a problem, find a solution to the problem and then get the ball rolling as soon as possible. On the flip side, there's some things that take time and organization and definitely can't be done within this one month, but some of you guys may not be applying this time round. Some of you guys may be applying in the future. So it's worth talking about leadership. There may be roles that you guys are already doing and for that, that's great. But a lot of the stuff from the leadership roles is a, is a voluntary application process where you're, you know, you're going for a position and that can be done in a month. But it's worth having a look at what you'd want to do. Um They don't have to particularly be um medical in regards to the questions we'll get to the questions at the end, I'm more than happy for you guys to pop it in. Um, but I'll answer it towards the end academic. Um, so the, the top marks academic, the, er, post graduate research degree, um, I think someone wrote about masters and stuff and Emre is a masters of research that would count what not, but that's five marks and that's a lot of work for five marks. There's a whole masters or, or like, you know, um, a degree or a phd behind it for four marks. You just have to do a first author publication. There's a big, big difference and it just requires maybe a couple months worth of graphs, you know, speaking down as a diagnostic, um, radiologist, get something later, then do a couple of months worth. And then the longest part really is gonna be trying to get it published. But you can publish anywhere. As long as it gives you a PUBMED ID, you can send it to the, the Malaysian Board of Nursing Journal. That's fine as long as it's got a PUBMED ID. But that process takes time and unfortunately, it means that you won't have the time to get those four points for this sitting if you don't already have it. Um, in regards to teaching qualifications, I brought this up, but I don't truly believe in this um for the fact that it's a long effort for just two extra points, um, to get the post graduate, um, certifications or masters versus just doing a quick two day course. I think you can make up those points very, very much, much, much easier in the interview. And in your M sra, I wouldn't lose sleep on it if you're already in a teaching post. Good. Great, perfect. Um, if not, um, I wouldn't sweat it. Er, prizes have a look. If you got anything while you're at university, you may have had something. If not, there's actually lots and lots, lots of these, um, these essay prizes and lots of radiology related essay prizes and stuff out there. Um, but as, as mentioned earlier, it's not gonna be within the next month. Um, but it's, it's not too much effort. It just requires as the title says, Time and a bit of organization and as I said, about 1000 times be organized. This is the most important thing now. Being organized actually saves you so much time. In regards to your application process, you need evidence, you need to collect evidence of everything that you've done. Whether it's a letter from the undergraduate department about the whole teaching program, um, whether it's your actual certificates, um, proof of whatever you've done, be organized, collect it as you're going along and make sure you're on top of things. You can't rely on other people, whether it's the, um, consultants or whether the managers trying to get stuff sorted for you is your career at the end of the day, you need to stay on top of it and make sure you're chasing people to get stuff and then to keep it organized and safe and ready. So when it comes to your portfolio, you've got all that. What is the M SRA? I am pretty sure you guys all know what the M SRA is. Um The Multispecialty recruitment assessment. It was a GP exam for many years is now an exam for everything. Um, as, as, uh as it is, it's two parts, a clinical paper, which is what you'd expect in a medical exam. And another one's this professional dilemma questions uh paper, which is the SAT stuff that Alex is talking about. Um If you study in the UK, you already know exactly what it is and if you haven't studied in the UK, um I'll give you an example of it but it's based upon, you know, um good medical practice and things like patient safety integrity and we'll get through that. It's not a problem. Cool. Why is it important? You can't get an interview without it? So it's kind of er, pointless having everything perfect and logging an interview. And, er, sad to say, I know a lot of people who have done really, really well on their portfolio but just haven't scored high enough. It is competitive and you need to make sure that you guys really give it your best shot. Now, this is slightly different. Now, this is wrong. So this was how it was before and initially it was all equal waiting. But as the I was put in the chat, the M SRA is now 20% but it is used to shortlist and for your interviews. So still just as important now, tips for the clinical paper, it's fy two level knowledge. Um I know that this sounds, well, some of you guys may be a flu which is fine. Um, you guys should know the level of which you should be at. But, er, if like myself, if you guys had gone further down different careers, so I left surgery, there's people left other parts CCT in different careers where it might be, it's not knowledge heavy like post grad exams. There's nothing like the M RCP, there's nothing like the MRC S or any of the sort. It's, um, it's basically the level of knowledge that you should have at an Fy two. Um, but do not underestimate it. That's, that's the main takeaway point here, even though it's not particularly difficult exam, er, it's very competitive because a lot of people are preparing for it for competitive specialties. So the best thing to do really is start early and how I prepared for it and how I recommend you guys prepare for it is questions, questions, questions, questions doesn't matter where you're going. I used to pass medicine. Uh, a lot of the time. Um, I had it done my M sra prior to my radiology application and there was a, a company, I think it was called E Medica and they had Question bank as well, which was very similar to the layout. It was on the exam. So II did those as well. Neither one's wrong, neither one's right. Just the more questions, the better. And if you're slightly further away, um, from F two, then it's probably worth getting ones like pass meds and that actually gives you a bit of a breakdown at the bottom of, you know, what's, er, if you've got something wrong or what's actually going on. Now, the two things about at the bottom, it kind of goes hand in hand. So one thing that was great cos obviously you guys will be busy in your shifts and what's going on at work, but active recall and reducing dead time. So, what I did in the preparation for mine is any time I got something wrong in the past medicine, one, I'd copy and paste, um, the part of the bottom into a word document, read it through, open another word, document, make questions on it. I would then read out loud even though I don't like the sound of my own voice, but I'd read out loud. Um, what that block of text was onto my phone and the dead time, which is the hour and a bit stuck in traffic commute to work, I'd listen through all the stuff that I had got wrong and then once a week I'd come back to this word document full of questions and I basically, uh, try to answer them. So I got all of them. Right. And then that's how I do active recall. Everyone will have strengths and weaknesses. Um, especially if you've gone, er, if you specialize into a career and then you're coming back, there will be certain things that you absolutely know inside out and there'll be certain things that you'll be very far from. So it's, it's the quicker you work out. What's your weakness, the better you'll be for it. Start early, as I said, um, you've got loads of time. Er, don't wait. Um, the ear start, do bit by bit. It's, it's just a great habit to get into, especially if you guys did, hopefully get into radiology. The exams are quite hard and relentless and they come very regularly. Er, you kind of feel like you can get your foot off the gas and you have to be, you know, just kind of take it like a marathon. So, start early with this, get used to preparing for stuff when you've got, um, other priorities and other, um, commitments, especially with work and stuff. And the earlier you start, the more likely you are to have actually finished the question banks and then be able to actually, um, recement what you've done tips for the S JT, er, good medical practice. I'm pretty sure you guys have read it, you know, cover to cover and, er, practice questions. Um, there's not too, too much I can say other than practice questions for this, but I have got two tips. So there's only thing that you can take away if there's only two things you take away from me. Speaking are the things we're gonna talk about now and that's the two types of questions they have. Now, one of the questions is a ranking. So most appropriate to least appropriate the way you handle this ultimately is you have to splitt the question up. So here's the at e you want to do this or this, right? So when you get your list, what I, what I do and what I did in my exam was which one's the best out of that list? Out of the, out of the five, that one goes to the top of the four, I don't think about what's the next best I even from the next four thing, which is the best out of this four, that one. And then the three, what's the best out of this three? Instead of me trying to work out which one's slightly better, slightly better, which one's best every time? And I keep narrowing the question down like that. So that's my way of handling this kind of question. And in regards to the next one is choosing three. So you see, I've read this and this and this, whereas the other one is this or this, what I mean by this is if you were to only do one thing, which one would it be? Right. That's why we split the question up of the five, which one's best of the four, which one's best of the three, which one's best until you've finished it? Yeah. Whereas the next one choosing three out of multiple options, it's this and this and this. You are going to do all three things. So you don't want to choose one as a bit and you want to make sure that you're happy with all three that you've chosen, right? So that's, that's the, that's the one distinction I want you guys to make uh when you're reading through these kind of questions, this and this and this. I'm happy doing all three of them. OK? Hope that makes a, a bit of sense before we get to Q and A s. Actually, I'm gonna just go through these questions here and then I believe DHA is going to go through what's changed and then we're gonna have a big open Q and A for everyone. Um So, Adam, how much points would a teaching fellowship probably give you? Well, that would be four points if you've completed it. Um I believe um it, because it would be a post graduate, er, formal qualification, it would be APG Cert, not a master's. Um If you've been a tutor for an extended online teaching program but not organized the whole course. Would that be a major contribution? I would argue. So I think you can argue your point. Don't lie. Prob obviously is a big thing. You don't want to be doing that. But I think if you have been attributed for an extended online teaching program, you've got evidence of this kind of stuff, it's been going on for a long period of time. I think that's reasonable to say that you've done major contribution and I think that's four points past medicine or past medicine pass as in like to pass the exam. So you want to pass medicine and when do you need to submit evidence? It's, you'll, you, you get told basically once you've done your application itself, um you've, you'll get an invite to submit evidence and that changes all the time. MBA Leadership and hospital management. I don't know what the question is there or a statement you wanna know if that's any school itself? Um I think nn not really um leadership in hospital management. I'm not sure where that would come across. It's not really teaching. Uh No, not for radiology. Anyway, so the back in the day for other specialties anyways, having extra masters and degrees would. But one of those I got a distinction award in year three. No, you can't school. No, sorry, I just saw that. Uh It has to be the final year of your course to count. They've also taken that out. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Also taken out. Do you recommend any more? II recommend if that's something that you're definitely weaker, the more questions, the better, genuinely, er, I can't stress that enough, the more you do, the better it is, er, significant exposures, I think to commitment. Um, so talking about exposures to what radiology is. So if you want to spend more than three days at a taste a week, make sure you just got, so not doing the exact same thing, maybe do three days at an academy three days in like dealing with MDT S and you maybe got breast clinic and whatnot, you know, just different exposures you need to have just to jump in there. I think if you've done a tertiary placement, a secondary placement, I think you can find enough different things to say which one you learned from that and then just talk about it on like I write a reflection or something to just to prove its different on it. And I think the next question then is if you have a case report with significant radiology, imaging aspects in a peer reviewed journal, would that be four points or 1.1 0.1 point? Yeah, based on the new er, portfolio or rather guidance, er, it does seem like a published case report is not just one point, unfortunately. Um I can see, I can see a question on honors degree. It depends whether the honors is equivalent to distinction. Sometimes it's a terminology thing because for, for example, in my university, you only get an honor if you get a distinction. So it depends what's the definition of an honor in your uni because wording wise, they said distinction. So I have a, have a chat with your medical school to see what he means. So II did that but what I did was in my evidence, I got my transcripts and I just highlighted it. It was an honors. I highlighted it and then this thing like what Alex said it was for the previous stuff, I just highlighted it just to specify, this is what I mean. But um yeah, I'm pretty sure you could try to, at least there's no harm in trying a, a tip that I would give is that if there is any, if you feel like there's any doubt in what you've done, um Just try and within your certificate or letter that certifies the, your experience, just clarify clearly what your roles and responsibilities were and what you, you know, what you really did in that role. Um And then that will just give them sort of more of an idea of what exactly you did and what, whether or not you fulfilled that, you know, the criteria for the points that you've um self assessed for. So I think everyone says, can we talk more about leadership and doing volunteering where, um, there's not to talk about really. And that, um, I, I'll, I'll just give a small example and I'm pretty sure I can give you something else but it doesn't have to be particularly medicine or something related. I just, II was the reason I lead for like a lifesavers course for something called beer. Um, but there's loads of different things. It's worth having a look at the actual, um, document that's available now to see what they mean. I think they're quite thorough about it, but I'll do anything to say about. But yeah, if they've, they've got really generic, like anything that's charity work, anything that's sports, anything that's creative art. So if you're coaching a sports team that it is kind of a leadership thing. Uh So if it's for myself, like, I've, I've done like volunteering with the Red Cross and II was kind of on one of the reps. So that counts as leadership. It's really just think of what you have done outside and see whether they tick a box by leadership. Leadership just meant anything where you just, you know, you're not just doing something you're kind of having other people to work with as well. I think if you're, you know, based in the UK, really good examples might be if you're, you know, the rota coordinator, if you're like the mess rep or something like that, if you're the rep for your particular specialty, um or and things like that. And those, even though, I mean, they're local roles but they still give you a, a reasonable number of points if you've been involved in your Radiological Society at uni, at all, that actually gives you quite a lot of points really, that can be up to five points. Um, so tho those would probably be the things, um, to target, er, and seven points is gonna be really tricky, er, unless you've been involved in, you know, National Radiological Society. Um, but I think there's lots of those roles that would give you five or three points. Um Umana basically is asked about, would it be five points for teaching? II still think it'd be four points because major contribution to a national teaching program. I wouldn't class that as national if it's medical students. Um, in that one place, I think you have to be careful, you can try to make your evidence work for you. I'm a big believer in making your evidence work for you, but if something's too much of a stretch, you have to remember. Someone does verify it and they will just knock you to point down for that. Um, it's not just not gonna point off that area. Sorry. Yeah, it's also knocking you point on the next one that, which is a bit borderline. Sorry. II there's a bit of a lag, I didn't realize I'm cutting into you. No, no problem, no problem boss. But, yeah, So, II think it's a before. Um I promise the thing uh if I can do a five day taste a week, uh that doesn't count as multiple significant. It needs to be uh more, I believe it needs to do another taste a week. Yeah, I think with, with that one, it's um there's no real justification to say that you've had two separate exposures. Um which is what I think is really key. Mhm So it seems like the next question is, yeah, so I'm actually looking at the actual documents right now because he was asking about whether the case report and a peer review publication are acceptable for four points. I think you might be misunderstood where it was explaining what relating to radiology means and where cos it literally just says what is relating to ra do you mean? So it's anything in other field? And I don't think it's specific to say that means you can get the four points that's just explaining what does it mean? Because if you look at the criteria three points, they also say relating to radiology. So I think it's unfortunate, it's the lower de denominator of the peer review, a case report. If you're really uncertain about this, you could try to get in touch with them and email them and ask them to clarify. There should, I'm not sure which area is leading the recruitment for radio this year, but there should be a generic email you can always email them and ask and ask them to clarify on this one point. Um II think that also probably holds true for the next question which relates to you. Um Ali has asked, she's got quite a lot of radiology experience by the sounds of things and is it possible to be accepted in the training? Er, I know there are quite specific requirements about it and they ask that if you have more than 18 months in radiology training that, that may put into question your eligibility. Er, what I would say is um so I've just in the chat um put a link for the support portal um which is where they've um ask you to direct questions basically, er, about, about radiology applications. Um I know I submitted a question to through that portal last year. It does take a little while for them to get back. Um But obviously we've still got a, about a month or so before the application deadline. So hopefully that should be enough time. So yeah, next question does BMA Representative counter? Yes, absolutely. It do. It would count. Um Obviously, I think it's not a radiology related role but still very much a healthcare related role. So I'm fairly sure that would count. Um Does a BSE honors degree get you any points? Uh I think that's probably not the case unfortunately anymore. Um They have explicitly said that now undergraduate degrees do no no longer. Um contribute to um basically application scoring because of some national changes, um er national requirement changes. I think the next thing about wood, an audit, er, attendance and presentation count as a significant exposure. II, don't believe it will count as a significant exposure. I don't think we can justify that. I think it depends if the presentation is linked to some, some work you have done, it might count. I think it's not, you're not just presenting something, you've actually done some sort of project with the department and then present it, then it might count as well. You can get, would that be points for something else though? Instead of exposure? So, so you don't, so each, each evidence doesn't have to just go on one area. It can be multiple domains if, if it works. Yeah. As before, with that one, I think it's very much depends on what your certificate and says basically. So if, if you're the person who said fine that you've done this audit, er, if they've also said that, you know, you've been in the department sev several days or been, you know, in, involved in lots of meetings, then it may count. Um, but if, if you're just, if it's just a single presentation, um, audit presentation, I think that it's probably not going to count for, er, points for exposure. Uh, what is the email idea? I think that's probably, er, asking about the s, um, email address for questions related to applications. So if you just follow that support portal, I think you can just, um that's the main sort of hub for asking questions related to applications. Um Next question is two audits that are GP related but not in radiology. Um So, uh yeah, I think that's probably it, um to get five or seven points it has to be related to radiology. Um So, er, maximum points you would get for, that is three depending on, um, you know, if, if, if you've l the audit something. Yeah, then the next question I was just saying I've done an audit in fiber scan. Can I add? Um, I think I would, yeah, I would agree. That's a radiology related, Rohan and Alex. So, what scans, I guess you can, you can stretch it no harm, like, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, ii sketch a cardiology project for my application. So, yeah, I, II stretched, I stretched it to you one as well. So it, you know, it's stretchable, er, in and then that goes on to the next thing would having done MRC S er, carry any points answers? No, no, not anymore. Um, and six points for a scholarship for an international program. Would that count as points in the prizes? And a award section? I presume is what's being asked, it would, um, depends on who gave you the scholarship. If it's a radar institution, then yes, if it's not, then I think you can only get two or three points or maybe one actually, if it's a local price. Um, next question presented the finance from Radiology I did and presented it in the radiology meeting. Um It depends, uh not entirely sure what section you'd be claiming that for, uh if it's being claimed. Yeah, it sort of depends on what you're claiming. Uh hear what section you're claiming that for really. But I think that's a good example where you can actually claim domain one for commitment to specialty. You can claim that for domain. Uh it's a 55 for audit and Q IP, this is the end of and then you can also claim for six for presentation. So that's a very good example where one thing can give you multiple points in multiple areas. Um Ali's thing. Um Ali, you have a very er in depth history with radiology in there, the MRC S uh masters in medical imaging, all that stuff's kind of irrelevant, the GP parts irrelevant. The F RCR two parts are something that's normally only done once started as a trainee. Um I think the best thing to do honestly, um because I don't think any of us will have an answer here is if you go to a link that's on that chat and message them directly whether um it's possible. Um I don't personally have the answer. I'm not sure if Alex and th er do as well, but I do remember especially for surgical training anyways, they were very strict after 18, if you've had 18 months worth of experience after graduating and not in the training program, there's no way that you could apply for ST one training. You'd have to either go for ST three or you'd have to caesar by doing, you know, uh, a staff grade job. Um, but I don't know particularly about radiology. I don't want to give you the wrong information. There is the same line, the personal spec to exactly what you're saying for the job in radiology as well. So you have to speak to them directly. This is something they would definitely help you on because it's more of a, it's more of a clear cut black and white question that you just need answer to any advantage of doing APG cert or APG dip in Med Ed. If you're extremely, you know, interested in doing so you should do it for yourself if you're trying to get it for the points. Um Personal, my personal opinion is I don't think you think it's worth the extra two points cos you can really make those points up in other things and you could use your time doing much more for your portfolio um for the sake of two points on top of just a two day online course, the other thing about the lot of the huge amount of commitment you have to add to it. But if you're, if you're truly interested in doing it, then that's fine. But if you're thinking of a portfolio personally, II don't think it's worth the time. I'm gonna add you, you are going to also need two years to do it. You need one year to do the actual PD cert and the reason you need to two because most university for a post graduate degree, the examiner will not meet until October November time to confirm your degree. So you don't end up getting a degree until December time. That will be past the next cycle of the application. So, unless you're currently a final year medical student, even that or maybe fourth year, you probably can't get it done in time because you need two years. And obviously you can't apply until September uh until the September intake now. So at this 0.3 years. Yeah. And, and it's, if you think about it, it's, there's a points that very few people are going to have as well. Um, the vast majority of people, to be honest, applying will only have two points for that section. And, er, Bronwyn, I believe has just answered the question that Ali had posed earlier. Um, so, yeah, please guys, if you have any more questions, do put them in the chat, um, what I'll do is I'll just share some slides that I'd, um, made a little while earlier, which just sort of summarize some of the key changes um, in the application cycle this year. Um So these are just some of the key dates. So the application deadline is the 23rd of November. The M SRA window will be in early January. And as Alex said, um the, er, dates are very much a first come first serve thing. So once you get the email to invitation, do try and book it as soon as you can um as to get the date that you'd prefer to have. Er, the self assessment evidence upload is done in, in mid February. So there is actually quite a bit of a gap between when you um submit your self assessment and the um actual upload evidence upload and then interviews are going to be between the 12th and 15th of March, er, which has just come on oral. Um then, er this is just summarizing the updates to the um er self assessment criteria, er, since last year. So, I mean, there's only, there's a lot more clarification about what does and doesn't count. Um but there's actually not any significant change to um the scoring criteria. So in domain one specialty, they've now just said that um if you haven't had the exposure such as like a taste a week, um then you only get two points instead of three. And the other thing is that they've now explicitly mentioned that published case reports and a letter to the editor will only give you one point. And I know that question was posed a couple of times earlier and finally, er, in terms of scoring and I have put this in the chat as well before but er, long listing, this is the same as last year. Um but it's the um purely based on the M sra so long listing, meaning whether or not you get an interview and 850 applicants will be getting an interview this year. And er, shortlisting then refers to who from the interview gets an offer. Um And the rating in this case is that 20% of your score, er, will be from the M sra 50% from your interview performance and 30% from your portfolio, er, which is slightly um different to last year as Alex had mentioned previously. Um So yeah, we can just ask answer a few more questions before we wrap up. Uh I'll also just put uh a link to the feedback form in the chat as well. Er, please do complete that it would be really helpful for us and for Alex and Rohan. Um and er, it will just also allow us to sort of, um, it gives us more of an idea of what to do for our next talks and for next year as well. Er, so we would really appreciate if you could do that feedback form. Um And yeah, we'll just carry on answering questions really until uh until eight o'clockish. So I think the next question having a say a week next week still can add it in the portfolio. Absolutely. Yeah, if you get the certificate and in regards to ali, I think again to your question is just, just email the email at, at the top. Um regarding ST three application, they'll be the best people to tell you about it. Um Could you share a link to the self assessment? Uh Would you mind just popping it across for the? Yeah, that's absolutely fine. So everything as Alex mentioned earlier, if you go on to Aureo and you look on vacancies and for the radiology vacancies, um you can see all the information that we've collected is in there. So it's either in the little information tab or in the documents tab that Alex showed the documents tab has both the self assessment criteria and a supplementary advice handbook and the information tab has this information about the scoring that I've, I've just shared with you guys now. Right? Yeah, I'll get the link to that shortly. Um To do, will it be possible to get a recording of this? Ii think this is being recorded. So that's it. Yeah, we can put that up in the next few days. Next question is about um Yeah, so sorry, I sort of clarify three or more. I think I might have accidentally said three or some uh more than three significant exposure at some point. So that to me, sounds like you could get the 10 points if you can explain how the Two Ray dodgy taste a week is different. Yeah. And I think that same thing applies really to, er, Aaron as well. Um in regards to Ansano, what's a good portfolio score? Honestly, I think it's very, very dependent. II scored quite highly. I know people who scored quite low and they've still got it. Um I think if you're thinking about yourself, um you should aim to at least have half the points at the very least. And I think you'd be ok and then the more the better obviously. But, um, but yeah, just whatever you have is just worth trying, the important thing to really is at this point where you are now try to maximize what you can in a month and really focus on smashing other M sra, um, I was just going to add to that. Um, I know people are always, er, asking sort of what, what scores are reasonable. I think, er, most of the, in my S MSD one currently, er, I think in my, er, sort of general portfolio score was sort of late twenties roughly. Um, that's what most people had. Um, and, um, that's just a general guide. Mhm. The n I've sort of lost on the questions actually. I don't know for you. No, I'm a bit up to date on the questions. Yeah, that's up to date. Ok, perfect. Yeah. So, uh, if you do have any more questions, then please do share them. Uh in the meantime, what I can do is if it is helpful, I'll just share the oral tab and I can just show you where all the information is um for the application. So if you just bear with me for a moment, so hopefully everyone can see this. Um, it's the oral tab, Rohan Alex. Can you see it? Ok. Yeah. Yep. So this informa this is the vacancy that everyone applies to clinical radiology and er it comes under LA KSS because they're the people that sort of manage all the national applications. So it doesn't mean you're just applying to London Kent or in Sussex er in the information section. Um They have lots of information as you can imagine but um they've got the details about some of the dates including the interview dates, uh the shortlisting process and um this uh a little bit more information here about the um er the waiting of, of different schools M sra for interviews for and self assessment score. Um So lots of information in here, er, the documents and then the documents that Alex was talking about. So this is the self assessment guidance document um which has all all the information that we talked about earlier and the supplement applicant handbook, which er answers a lot of questions that um you might have about the process. I'm gonna add one thing I just saw something there for those of you who, and, and have extra time or any other exam requirement you have to put on your application. I missed the box in my year. It was a hassle to try to get them approve afterwards. Next question regarding D choices if you apply to competitive one and don't get it, do you either miss out on a job or do you get somewhere ranked lower on your preferences? Um, so you get ranked somewhere lower on your preferences basically. Er, it's the, there'll be 300 150 places roughly. Um So, er, if you are ranked above that, so above 350 you've ranked all the jobs, um then uh you will get a job basically and it may just be that it's your very last preference. Um But uh yeah, you would get a job uh if I blow a letter from the college. Um and he just as before, I think, er, so um some of these questions may be best directed to that support portal. Um I think actual references aren't um because this isn't a national standardized application, I think having just a reference and submitting that is not going to be helpful because it doesn't necessarily fit into any of the sections of the portfolio scoring. Um So, er, it's, yeah, II would just say that and uh any significant significant difference between deaneries, I wouldn't necessarily worry about that right now. There are lots of differences. Um but, er, er, the key differences being those that are sort of academy based systems and those that are not academy based systems, academy based systems are basically ones that have, er, or maybe Brian can explain a bit better as well but, er, ones that have, er, almost, er, teaching sessions, um, wi within the or not teaching sessions but, um, almost classroom based learning, um, and a little bit less clinical based learning or clinical replacement based learning. Um, er, but yeah, there's, er, we can, er, er, it's probably to expand upon another time to know if anyone else wants to add on that. II think the, the discussion between academies and non academies is a, is a very long thing. Has a very long discussion to have. They, they all have their pros and they have their cons. I wouldn't get bogged down to you too much about it. Um, I'm in an academy at the moment which is Peninsula. I'm going to be moving back to Birmingham in March, which is also an academy but it's completely different to how it is in Peninsula, which is kind of like going to uni every alternate month and going to the hospital. Whereas in Birmingham it was one day a week on teams and stuff. It's all very, very different. I wouldn't get too, too bogged down by it. I think just focus on getting a, a number and everything will be fine from there and try to get where you want to go. Don't worry about it. Most places it is gonna be an academy. I joined us, I joined Oxford thinking is a traditional and we have just become an academy this year there. Um case report published up here. Yeah, I bel I believe so. I think there's a specific thing. I think Alex can confirm for you, but I think it is now just one point. Yeah, f from my understanding, that's what it sounds like. But if you, if you really think it should be, it might be more just again, email the team, they can clarify exactly what they meant in the weddings. And in regards to ZA, he was talking about if you guys have any reasons for any extra time, you have to make sure you put it down on your application when you're doing your application because I was saying it was a hassle for him to sort out later. Cos if you do it, then they actually give you extra time for your M sra you can't get that link later. So I think that was the point he was making. Make sure you have that. I got lucky cos I got a, I got a GP application who also got which I remember to do extra time on. So they kind of just like, oh we kind of knew it was fine but it was still tons of emails and tons of like worrying cos it makes a massive difference. So the next question is about a buddy scheme at uni um yeah, I think that sounds fair leadership related and actually teaching role. So you, if you get the right evidence that could definitely tick the box for you, but then it also means you don't have to figure out something else for teaching. Uh I was gonna say, obviously, like we, we can't say what exactly they are gonna count and not count. Um It's very much just how you er what your letter and certificate says you were involved in. And um it, it ultimately, at the end of the day, it will be a subjective judgment as to whether or not it does fit that criteria. Um So it's just how best you can argue what it is really. And in regards to Akila, yeah, this is, this has been recorded so you can watch later and in regards to Aaron, um you, you apply when to choose um after you get an interview and then after you get your right, then you get to choose it. Um Before then, no, I've got um they have put their preferencing window within the supplementary er applicant handbook. Um So I'll just paste that in the chat now. Um But the provisional date is between the 26th of February and 19th of March. This when you'll be able to preference um different schemes um in terms of exposure to specialty, it's now three instead of two. So that was just on that one specific, uh, criteria point. Um, er, so if, er, yes, but it, it now gives you, oh, well, it now gives you two points instead of three. Ok. Uh, I think we've just a little bit past eight o'clock and it looks like we are up to date with the questions. Um, so as before please, er, do just complete the feedback form, I'll send out the link again. Um Thank you all for attending. Hope you found it useful. Um And, er, yeah, that's everything. Um So thank you all very much and, er, a recording will be out, er, in the next few days. It's fine. Sorry. There are a couple of more questions I can try and do my best to answer them just as everyone's left. But um do audits have to be done within the calendar year of the application year to be valid. Uh Not necessarily, no, they can be done in the previous year. Um So it doesn't have to be done within your application cycle if I've understood the question correctly and distinction in final year. Um So I'll, again, it is quite explicit in the, er, academic, er, in the um guidance documents. Um But I believe distinction order, final, your primary medical qualification does still count for four points. So, um you can get six months of that. All right, then everyone take care pla